Writing Questions- very long

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Can you give me a guideline for writing for a 6th grader and an 8th grader? How many papers, paragraphs, etc?

So far they have written 2 IEW style paragraphs, a descriptive paragraph(long one) expository paragraph, persuasive paragraph (sort of, really a letter), a 2-3 page report on a topic of their chosing, a pet peeve essay which was 3/4 of a page, and a history report that was 5 paragraphs but ended up being barely a page. They are currently working on a book report(6th grader) and an analytical essay(8th).

Last year they were in co-op with a speech class and an IEW class, so we just interspersed TOG redesigned 1 writing on light weeks (co-op meets 9 times each semester). This year I am taking TOG redesigned 2 at half speed, so I needed to make up my own topics/ assignments sometime. We are just finishing unit 1 this week after starting in July. I really used supplemental/extra materials and enjoyed our history study. Anyway, in the past, they have done a lot less writing but I just kept hammering and revising it with them until I thought it was good. This year I have really been working on deadlines. So 2 weeks on this past 5 paragraph history report seemed like what would be reasonable, but they were AWFUL!!! My 6th grader in particular is really struggling. How much should his writing be following a formal pattern?? I don't know if I am expecting too much. We do the graphic organizers. So the 6th grader wrote about the Hundred Years War. I helped him with the organizer: 1st paragraph about English strengths, 2nd paragraph about French strengths, and then the last paragraph about the results. We FILLED IN THE CHART TOGETHER!!! Then this is the rambling result I get:

The Hundred Years war was a devastating war between France and England. Many were killed in this war. It started in 1337 A.D. Edward the III claimed the throne of France because his mother’s brother was the King of France. The English, who were outnumbered 3-1, abruptly attacked.
The English had advantages and disadvantages. Even though the English, at first, where outnumbered, they used cunning to defeat the French in most major battles, but they fought in France, which made it harder to get provisions. The English won almost all major battles because of cunning, but lost because they didn’t capture any castles. When Edward the III attacked at Sluys, he saw that the French had chained their boats together so the English could not pass. It did not work. The English archers wreaked havoc on the French. The French were utterly smashed. The French fled. Six years later the French and English fought at Crecy. Edward was marching through France when he heard the French were close behind. Phillip, the King of France, had 120,000 men, compared to England’s 20,000 men. Edward the III and his son Edward the IV, also called the Black prince because he wore black amour, told the army to stop and camp at Crecy. The next morning Edward the III divided his army into three parts. He gave his son one of the parts. The French marched and saw the English, who where well rested. King Phillip commanded his army to stop. The back part walked until they were with the front part. The front part went forward, and the back part followed, etc, so the English archers ripped the French to pieces.
The French had a stronger army, but because they were not as cunning as the English was they lost many major battles. The war stopped in 1348 because of the Black Death. In 1413, King Henry the V tried to claim the throne of France. The King of France sent a letter to the King of England refusing. The Dauphin or Prince of France also sent a letter with tennis balls. He rudely remarked that Henry the V was being a foolish boy, and that he should play some tennis. Soon after, Henry the V attacked, and ruined the French army. The King of France gave Henry the V his daughter and told him that he was the king of France. However, Henry the V never got to be the King if France. He died soon after the agreement. His son, Henry VI, was only a baby. France was divided in Civil war. Some people wanted Charles VII, who had rudely insulted Henry V, to be King. Others wanted the baby Henry to be King. Then Joan of Arc came. She won back Orleans. Then she was captured and burned at the stake. The French fought on and finally drove the English out of France.
In the end, the French won. They entirely knocked the English out of France. It did not matter that the English had won almost all the major battles. Losing hurt the English economy because it cost the people of England higher taxes, which the people did not like. The English had already lost to Scotland. The war had lasted 116 years. The French had gained all there land back. The war was finally over.


He did this for his D-Day paper as well. We talked through a thesis and the 3 main points and then his paper just described the events in chronological order!!! GRRR!!!


My 8th grader can do it, but would spend his whole day doing Algebra and Biology if he could and really doesn't enjoy writing. It's good enough he says. His Olympic paper was really good because he likes sports, but the William Wallace paper... UGH!! There are obvious errors, lack of transitions, and errors that either he or his brother should have seen( He was very brace instead of brave???) Here is his paper:

William Wallace was an extraordinary hero in Scottish history. Because there are several myths about him, he is still a national hero in Scotland. He was also a great leader, and he changed the history of Scotland.
There is myth about Wallace was the son of Sir Malcolm Wallace. Nobody knows if this is true, but some people believe he was not a son of a knight, and some people thought he was descended from the Welsh, and some people believe he was the son of Allan Wallace. No one knows when or where Wallace was born. The dates from his birth are from 1260-1278 A.D. He supposedly was 6 foot 7 inches. His sword is said to be 5 foot 7 inches long. It is not known if he married. Some people say that the reason why he killed a sheriff was that the sheriff killed his wife.
He was a great leader because he believed he could make Scotland an independent nation. He had a fiery vision and a burning idea of a free Scotland. He was also a good military leader. One of the exams of him being a good leader was at the battle of Sterling Bridge. Instead of crossing the bridge, he waited for the English to go over the bridge about three-fourths of the way. The bridge was not very wide, so once they had all crossed they could not retreat. He soundly defeated the English because of this. He also used guerrilla tactics to fight the English. He would engage in small raids and disappear. Most of the time, he did not fight in head-on battles. He was very brace
He changed the history of Scotland because what he did secured Scottish Independence for over 300 years. When he was captured by Edward I, King of England, Wallace was put to death in the worst possible way. It was supposed to make a point. Surprisingly, it made the Scottish and especially Robert Bruce, who was on both sides, go up in arms, and fight for the freedom of Scotland.
William Wallace was not born into a royal family, but he is a hero in Scotland. Freeing Scotland made him extraordinary.


In school they have deadlines. I could spend the next week going over these papers with each of them and have them sounding much, much better. But is that really the right thing to do?? Am I expecting too much? Using the rubrics for what they have written so far, my 6th grader has a D in writing for the semester and my 8th grader a C (some papers A, Some D. I would give this one a D for an honors 8th grader!)

Christine

The boys did have paragraphs, but the formatting didn't show them in the post.

Christine

Hi Christine. I taught high school English for some time and have an MA in English education, so I have a couple ideas. Rather than be as concerned about the grade, while that is relevant, the point is getting your kids to write well. Rubrics, in fact, are great in that the focus is supposed to be less on the grade and more on where the quality of writing lies. And this is where you want your boys's focus as well, but more on that later.

I would consider these in first draft stages.

While you mention that you use graphic organizers, these often work best as prewriting. What will help your boys most is the next step being a good solid outline. If they have not learned outlining yet, this will be one of the best skills they can learn since it is also helpful in speech and debate.

Try the outlining as a step between prewriting and before the first draft to see if it helps. You might have them begin with very detailed outlines. As they progress, they can become more general. Outlines will help them better see the relationship of ideas. Even general outlines should at least have the thesis and main points in full sentences.

This will be very helpful when you get to writing research papers as they will have so much information that the only way to cope is through a solid outline. This carries all the way through graduate school by the way.

Now, your sixth grader simply may not be ready for this sort of writing yet. What he is doing is simple narration as he is just at the stage of being able to really write down original thought. What you are asking him to do is at an analytical level that he may not be prepared to write yet. In fact, he may be able to narrate it to you in that manner but will struggle writing it in that way. One of the most difficult things is to switch from storytelling to these other modes of nonfiction.

If you think he can really do it, and outlining hasn't helped, another thing you might try is having him highlight the writing according to the boxes he has filled in. So, for point number one, have him highlight all sentences that belonged in that box, etc. Then he will be able to see which sentences he will need to reorganize in his second draft.

Another option is to have the two boys review each other's writing. It tends to be much easier to see weaknesses and strengths in other writing, and this process tends to help everyone involved. Use the rubric and have them grade each other.

Another possibility is to have them grade themselves once in awhile. I know that sounds crazy, but if you ask them to then explain why they gave themselves that grade according to the rubric, you will often find areas that they still really don't understand.

If you are still struggling to motivate them or are hoping for that motivation to be more of an internal one versus the external one of grades, seek out a college aged tutor or some other qualified tutor who can comment on your child's drafts.

Writing can be frustrating when it seems there is really no interested or "real" reader. Writing, by nature, is meant to be shared. The more you can do this, the more your boys will want their writing to communicate effectively. In fact, one "fun" way to teach kids how to write is to focus on writing for different audiences. Take one assignment and have them write it two or three ways based on different types of readers.

I love teaching writing, so I hope one or two ideas have been new to you and will help. I also do not edit my emails and blogs, so don't be too critical of this draft. That's another thing. Didn't you wish you could put disclaimers on all your writing assignments through the years? Let your kids write these once in awhile. They also tend to give you important information in terms of their thought process.

Christine,

Did you edit my work yet? If so, you noticed I wrote "well" instead of "good." Aghhhh....the wonders of the English language.

Cheryl