Lampstand Press Tapestry of Grace Together The Bookshelf
Home The Forum Togetherblog Newsletter Co-ops Mailgroups Find a Friend
Email us! These forums are a great place to get answers to your questions or discuss the content of Tapestry of Grace. Please use the suggestion button (left) to send us your ideas for ways that we can improve this program!
Tapestry of Grace Forums    tapestryofgrace.groupee.net    Tapestry of Grace  Hop To Forum Categories  Year 2 Redesign Topics ONLY  Hop To Forums  Y2 Literature    Rhetoric Student Question for Christy Somerville
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
-star Rating Rate It!  Login/Join 
Posted
Hello!

My name is Keaghan, and I am a continuing-level Rhetoric student. I just finished week 5, and had a few questions about Beowulf.

I read the text, and the Norton introduction, and my mother and I did the literature discussion. It was made clear that Norton does not consider Beowulf Christian. I know that they it was said, in Norton as well as in the discussion time, that the poet had a Christian worldview, but Beowulf and the characters didn't.

This was my first time to read Beowulf, and I got the impression that Beowulf did have a Christian worldview, which is how I answered my Student Questions. So I was rather confused when, during discussion, we realized that ToG said that Beowulf was not a Christian.

I was just wondering why one cannot say that Beowulf has a Christian worldview? There are many references throughout to God's intervention and power.

I will list some of the lines that caused me to think this way.

“Then a powerful demon, a prowler through the dark, nursed a hard grievance. It harrowed him to hear the din of the loud banquet every day in the hall, the harp being struck and the clear song of a skilled poet telling with mastery of man’s beginnings, how the Almighty had made the earth a gleaming plain girdled with waters; in His splendor He set the sun and the moon to be earth’s lamplight, lanterns for men, and filled the broad lap of the world with branches and leaves; and quickened life in every other thing that moved.” ~~Norton, lines 86-98

“And before he bedded down, Beowulf, that prince of goodness, proudly asserted: ‘When it comes to fighting, I count myself as dangerous any day as Grendel. So it won’t be a cutting edge I’ll wield to mow him down, easily as I might. He has no idea of the arts of war, of shield or sword-play, although he does possess a wild strength. No weapons, therefore, for either this night: unarmed he shall face me if face me he dares. And may the Divine Lord in His wisdom grant the glory of victory to whichever side He sees fit.” ~~Norton, lines 675-686

“When Hrothgar arrived at the hall, he spoke, standing on the steps, under the steep eaves, gazing toward the roofwork and Grendel’s talon: ‘First and foremost, let the Almighty Father be thanked for this sight. I suffered a long harrowing by Grendel. But the Heavenly Shepherd can work His wonders always and everywhere.”
~~Norton, lines 924-930

There are several lines that led me to my conclusion. Another point that I have is that when Beowulf defeats Grendel, the author makes it clear that he’s relying on God for strength, then when he goes to fight the dragon, it is stated that he was relying on his own strength, which I took to mean that even the great Geat couldn’t win without God’s help.

This is my opinion.

By the way, I am immensely enjoying ToG literature! I have learned so much!

Thank you,

Keaghan Kane
14 years old
2nd year with ToG Rh.
 
Posts: 14 | Registered: 13 April 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
Hi Keaghan! May I congratulate you on a keen question and a humble, well-supported presentation of it? Thank you also for your encouragement; one of my greatest joys in life is to hear students say that they enjoy what I've written for them. :-) Let me see if I can help to clear up a little of your confusion.

Medieval authors, unlike authors of our own age, did not think it inappropriate to put the beliefs and ideas of their own time and worldview into the mouths of people from other times and worldviews. For instance, if my memory serves me, when you get to Week 14 you will find an ironic moment in a play on Christ's crucifixion when one of the soldiers who is helping to crucify the Savior swears "By our Lady," meaning Mary, the mother of Jesus, which is something that only a person who knows who Jesus is would say. The irony is that the soldier has no idea of Jesus' importance, and thinks he is just another criminal being executed, but still swears by Mary just as a medieval Christian would. Again, in Week 9 you will read of King David in the Bible "choosing his knights" and of Jesus "jousting."

These and many other examples illustrate the point: in medieval retellings of ancient events and people (whether historical or fictional) you can find Christian ideas and allusions to medieval culture in the mouths even of characters who were supposed to have been in biblical times, or at the Fall of Troy or the founding of Rome.

Thus, when the medieval Christian poet who composed Beowulf (most likely a monk) sat down to tell of this hero from the pagan British past, the result is a curious blend of pagan and Christian, in which we read of bards singing about how God created the world even though they would not have believed that, or find Beowulf boasting of his strength one moment as if it is his own doing, and attributing all his success to God the next. No wonder you found it confusing!

So, when the Teacher's Notes and Norton say that Beowulf was not a Christian, they mean the original Beowulf, the fictional (perhaps even originally historical) hero. They also mean that underneath the layer of Christianity which the poet has added, Beowulf is basically the story of a pagan hero and reflects a basically pagan culture. Just as we know quite well that the soldiers who crucified Christ would not have sworn by His mother, and that King David never chose knights and Jesus never jousted, so we have to bear in mind that Beowulf would never have been aware of the Almighty. This is why it's so helpful to understand literature in it's historical context---so that we understand that in the medieval context we will find this sort of thing going on, and should take it into account.

Does that make sense? If you still aren't convinced, please let me know! I'm not infallible, and I'm happy to talk more about it. :-) Here's one more thought for you though: be careful to know what you mean by "Christian" worldview. Even if we said that Beowulf is a work that corresponds to an important element of a biblical and Christian worldview in that its author acknowledges God (even though Beowulf would not have done so), we should remember that it nowhere refers to Christ or the gospel (not to the best of my memory, anyway). Since the gospel is what separates our worldview from that of, say, a person of Jewish faith, we can't really call Beowulf *Christian* unless it indicates some awareness of Christ and the gospel. Do you see?

Thanks again for a great question! I look forward to your response. :-)

Christy Somerville
Lampstand Press
Staff Author

P.S. This whole discussion we are having would make a great topic for a Literary Analysis Paper, if you plan to do one this year. :-)
 
Posts: 210 | Registered: 26 July 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
Thank you for the compliment!SmilerI wanted to make sure that I had some back-up before I presented my idea.

Thank you so much for your input, Ms. Somerville! I think that I understand now.

However, I still think that if I had been reading this independently, rather than in ToG, I would never have challenged my first impression that Beowulf was Christian. There were so many references to God, the Bible, etc., that I would never have thought twice about it.

Thank you for kindly explaining this to me! I must admit, I was rather confused! You hit it right on when you said that Beowulf is boasting of his strength one minute, and thanking God the next! It makes for a confusing worldview! Confused

I find it interesting that medieval authors did that. The same thing happened when I was reading the Chanson de Roland. The author claimed that the Muslims worshiped a trinity, and that they worshiped Muhammad. I found that interesting…his ideas were clearly wrong, since Muslims are monotheistic and do NOT worship Muhammad.

Yes, I understand what you mean. "Christian" and being aware of God are two different things. Perhaps I was confused about that, and that's why I was unsure. Thank you again!

This whole discussion has been very interesting for me, since I hope to be a Patrick Henry College student someday, and I am very interested in literature! Smiler

Thank you for the great answer!

Keaghan Kane

P.S. Hmmm...that's a good idea! I just might!
 
Posts: 14 | Registered: 13 April 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
 Previous Topic | Next Topic powered by eve community  
 

Tapestry of Grace Forums    tapestryofgrace.groupee.net    Tapestry of Grace  Hop To Forum Categories  Year 2 Redesign Topics ONLY  Hop To Forums  Y2 Literature    Rhetoric Student Question for Christy Somerville